Modified:
25 Feb 2009
by Admin

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Neutral:

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Debatewise debate DEBATE: CO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING

It is a commonly accepted theory that increased levels of Co2 are causing an increase in the temperature of the earth’s atmosphere via the ‘greenhouse effect.’ More and more scientists are arguing, however, that this is still just a theory - one that is being used by media, politicians and other organisations to manipulate an unsuspecting public. Further debate may uncover the truth…





Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


There is no scientifically valid mechanism for CO2 causing global warming.


Carbon dioxide absorbs all radiation available to it in about ten meters. More CO2 only shortens the distance, which is not an increase in temperature. In other words, the first 20% of the CO2 in the air does most of what CO2 does, and it doesn't do much. www.nov55.com

• The carbon dioxide greenhouse effect provides a scientifically valid mechanism. CO2 produces a warming effect not by soaking up the radiation in its immediate vicinity, like a sponge, but by raising the effective radiating level of the atmosphere to a colder layer.

• The atmosphere doesn't act as a single unit, but is made up of hundred of different layers. Some of the energy radiated from Earth is stopped in each of these layers. The energy is then re-radiated in a random direction, but on average the energy is moving either "up" or "down." The atmosphere gets thinner as altitude increases, so eventually the radiation will reach a layer high enough and thin enough to escape to space.

• If you increase the concentrations of a greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, the thin upper layers will become more opaque and thus absorb more of the IR; therefore the place where the majority of the energy finally escapes moves to a higher level. These higher levels are much colder (until you reach the stratosphere, but as most infrared photons escaping to space are emitted by the troposphere, this can be ignored), and so they do not radiate heat very well. Thus the rate that radiation escapes to space is lower, and the planet will take in more than it radiates. As the higher levels emit some of the excess downwards, the lower levels will warm all the way down to the surface.

• The imbalance will remain until the higher levels get hot enough to radiate as much energy back out as the planet is receiving.

• 19th century physicist John Tyndall described the effect neatly like so:

"As a dam built across a river causes a local deepening of the stream, so our atmosphere, thrown as a barrier across the terrestrial rays, produces a local heightening of the temperature at Earth's surface."


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


Global temperatures have always been changing despite Co2 increases


• The icecap on Kilimanjaro has been melting since the 1800s, long before human emissions could have influenced the global climate, and satellites do not detect a warming trend in the region; deforestation at the foot of the mountain is the likely explanation for the melting trend (See http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/468/218/ for more info);

• Sea levels have been rising at the rate of 10 to 20 centimeters (four to eight inches) per hundred years for the past 6,000 years

• There has been no increase in extreme weather events (.e.g., floods, tornadoes, drought) over the past century or in the past 15 years; computer models used to forecast climate change do not predict more extreme weather

• The Ross Ice Shelf in Antarctica has been melting for the past 6,000 years; Greenland’s ice sheet is not melting according to 17 years of satellite data recently released (See http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/1548/218/ for more information)

• Most of the warming in the past century occurred before 1940, before CO2 emissions could have been a major factor

• Temperatures fell between 1940 and 1970 even as CO2 levels increased

• The Earth's climate is a complex and dynamic system that is subject to a multitude of different forcings on many different timescales. The fact that the climate can change and has changed independently of carbon dioxide does not mean that carbon dioxide cannot change the climate. It simply means that some other forcing, be it an increase in solar output, a change in the planet's albedo, etc., has overwhelmed the forcing signal from carbon dioxide.

• In 1991, for example, after the eruption of Mount Pinatubo, there was a sharp drop in global temperature following the massive outpouring of ash from the volcano. This sudden increase in air born particulate matter briefly overwhelmed many other forcing factors and drove the temperature down by several degrees until the ash settled out of the atmosphere. This is just one of many examples of a short term forcing managing to overwhelm a longer term forcing, such as an enhanced greenhouse effect.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


The 'Global warming' phenomenon could be caused by other things


Changes in land use and urbanization may contribute more to changes in the average ground temperature than “global warming” caused by human emissions. www.climatechangefraud.com

There are probably other factors which are contributing to the warming effect, both natural and man-made. However, calculations also show that the rise in temperature can be easily explained by the increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. Until another compelling explanation is put forward, this would seem to tbe the most likely cause.

Also, just because something else could be causing global warming doesn't mean that it is.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


Co2 does not hold in heat!


The public is being misled through propaganda to assume CO2 is like a sheet of plastic holding in heat. CO2 can only absorb 8% of radiation frequencies available (No one disputes this.), and only about 1% of the heat leave the earth as radiation--the other 99% being conduction, convection and evaporation. NASA says its 41%, not 1%, but there is no agreement, and night vision equipment shows there is very little infrared radiation given off by normal temperature matter. www.nov55.com

• All of the energy flowing from Earth to space is necessarily in the form of electromagnetic radiation. Earth is floating in a vacuum, making it physically impossible for it to lose energy through conduction or convection. So while much of the energy moving across the planet's surface is not in the form of radiation, it is the only form of energy important in determining the planet's temperature–the planet's temperature being determined by the ratio of the flux of outgoing terrestrial radiation to the flux of incoming solar radiation.

• Also, carbon dioxide is an effective absorber in the infrared spectrum. Due to its temperature, Earth radiates energy primarily in the infrared spectrum. So while carbon dioxide may fill a small absorptive window, it fills a very important one.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


Oceans regulate the amount of CO2 in the air through absorption equilibrium


Equilibrium is rapid and total as indicated by many sources of evidence. One, the graph for CO2 in the air is an extremely precise line. If nothing were regulating, it would vary wildly. Two, if equilibrium were not established, oceans would be absorbing or losing CO2 at a high rate, yet no detectable change occurs beyond the stab in the dark guess that it might have dropped 0.15 pH units over the past century. www.nov55.com

Oceans do absorb atmospheric CO2. And under normal conditions the oceans and the biosphere will generally keep the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere constant. However, human activities are producing CO2 at a much higher rate than the planet's oceans and biosphere are able to absorb it. This imbalance is responsible for virtually the whole of the 20th century rise in CO2.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


Measurements are inaccurate


• Temperature readings from reporting stations outside the U.S. are poorly maintained and staffed and probably inaccurate; those in the U.S., which are probably more accurate, show little or no warming trend (See http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/ for more information)

• Temperature readings taken by terrestrial reporting stations are rising because they are increasingly surrounded by roads and buildings which hold heat, the “urban heat island” effect; methods used to control for this effect fail to reduce temperatures enough to offset it; See Anthony Watt’s “How not to measure temperature series” at http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-66/

•Sufficient data exist to measure changes in mass for only 79 of the 160,000 glaciers in the world

• Computer simulations are not real-world data and cannot be relied on to produce reliable forecasts. Data is usually inputted by persons looking for specific outcomes. See http://www.landshape.org/enm/ for more information.

• Surface monitoring stations are not the only evidence that the planet is warming. satellite data, radiosondes, borehole analysis, glacial melt observations, sea ice melt, sea level rise, proxy reconstructions, and permafrost melt all conclusively show that the planet has undergone a pronounced and rapid warming over the past century and a half. So even if the entire surface temperature record were contaminated beyond use, there would still be no doubt whatsoever that the planet is warming.

• Aside from this, it has been demonstrated in several independent studies (Peterson, 2003) that the urban heat island effect does not significantly affect the surface temperature record. That is, the 20th century warming trend is not simply an artefact of urban development.

• It is also important to note that the warming trend is not an output of a computer model, but a conclusion based upon observing real-world evidence such as that listed above.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


No time to hold back


The adverse economic effect of taxing carbon dioxide production in an effort to control "CO2-induced" global warming will be substantial. Poverty will be created and wealth will be destroyed. Nothing is worse for the environment than poverty. People in poverty don't care a whit for the environment, they just want to feed their children. Examples of this throughout the world, and in cities everywhere, are abundant. Environmental protection is considered an unaffordable luxury when people are poor. With the global economy on a knife-edge, it is no time to hold back-- we should all be fighting against those who are incapable of recognizing that the cause-effect order is not established for CO2 and temperature... Indeed, the DATA themselves more strongly support that CO2 rises occur as a result of temperature increases, and that our addition to CO2 in the atmosphere will have no effect at all that is predictable from the previous data..

Among other factors which may be responsible for climate change, human action is generally regarded a strong contribution – and one which looks set to increase, particularly in light of the swift industrialization of certain large nations, such as China. There may not be time to wait.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


Many scientists think it does


An idea isn't validated by how many scientists accept it, but by the veracity of the evidence supporting it. It is perfectly possible for many scientists who accept or reject the theory to be wrong.

Anthropogenic effects on climate change are accepted by more than 99% of climate scientists. The longest, high resolution datasets in the world are land and sea surface temperature, collected since the 1860s, the errors of which have now been statistically corrected (Folland and Parker, 1995). Since the advent of climate modeling since the early 1990s, technology has improved so rapidly that scientists are now able to isolate the different forcings of climate change, and have shown unequivocally that natural variability, sun spots and volcanic activity are not able to explain the rise in global temperature, and that anthropogenic emissions of CO2 (which have been monitored in Hawaii since 1957) is the only plausible explanation for the additional, catastrophic rise in temperature.


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Debatewise debateCO2 DOES NOT CAUSE GLOBAL WARMING


Natural Variability Alone is Insufficient to Account for the Bulk of the Warming


• Using sound and well understood physical principals, scientists are able to construct accurate and reliable models of Earth's climate which they can then use to "hindcast" past climate changes. They have discovered that when only natural factors are included, the models do not accurately reflect the 20th century climate change. It is only when both natural and anthropogenic factors (such as CO2) are considered that the models present realistic results. • Scientists have also been unable to discover any natural forcing-such as changes in solar output-active during the past century sufficient to have produced the bulk of the 20th century warming trend.




Vote on the overall debate: Co2 does not cause global warming

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1. There is no scientifically valid mechanism for CO2 causing global warming.
# 1

Carbon dioxide absorbs all radiation available to it in about ten meters. More CO2 only shortens the distance, which is not an increase in temperature. In other words, the first 20% of the CO2 in the air does most of what CO2 does, and it doesn't do much. www.nov55.com

admin

|

12:51, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

• The carbon dioxide greenhouse effect provides a scientifically valid mechanism. CO2 produces a warming effect not by soaking up the radiation in its immediate vicinity, like a sponge, but by raising the effective radiating level of the atmosphere to a colder layer.

• The atmosphere doesn't act as a single unit, but is made up of hundred of different layers. Some of the energy radiated from Earth is stopped in each of these layers. The energy is then re-radiated in a random direction, but on average the energy is moving either "up" or "down." The atmosphere gets thinner as altitude increases, so eventually the radiation will reach a layer high enough and thin enough to escape to space.

• If you increase the concentrations of a greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, the thin upper layers will become more opaque and thus absorb more of the IR; therefore the place where the majority of the energy finally escapes moves to a higher level. These higher levels are much colder (until you reach the stratosphere, but as most infrared photons escaping to space are emitted by the troposphere, this can be ignored), and so they do not radiate heat very well. Thus the rate that radiation escapes to space is lower, and the planet will take in more than it radiates. As the higher levels emit some of the excess downwards, the lower levels will warm all the way down to the surface.

• The imbalance will remain until the higher levels get hot enough to radiate as much energy back out as the planet is receiving.

• 19th century physicist John Tyndall described the effect neatly like so:

"As a dam built across a river causes a local deepening of the stream, so our atmosphere, thrown as a barrier across the terrestrial rays, produces a local heightening of the temperature at Earth's surface."

admin

|

12:51, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


2. Global temperatures have always been changing despite Co2 increases
# 1

• The icecap on Kilimanjaro has been melting since the 1800s, long before human emissions could have influenced the global climate, and satellites do not detect a warming trend in the region; deforestation at the foot of the mountain is the likely explanation for the melting trend (See http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/468/218/ for more info);

• Sea levels have been rising at the rate of 10 to 20 centimeters (four to eight inches) per hundred years for the past 6,000 years

• There has been no increase in extreme weather events (.e.g., floods, tornadoes, drought) over the past century or in the past 15 years; computer models used to forecast climate change do not predict more extreme weather

• The Ross Ice Shelf in Antarctica has been melting for the past 6,000 years; Greenland’s ice sheet is not melting according to 17 years of satellite data recently released (See http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/1548/218/ for more information)

• Most of the warming in the past century occurred before 1940, before CO2 emissions could have been a major factor

• Temperatures fell between 1940 and 1970 even as CO2 levels increased

admin

|

13:01, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

• The Earth's climate is a complex and dynamic system that is subject to a multitude of different forcings on many different timescales. The fact that the climate can change and has changed independently of carbon dioxide does not mean that carbon dioxide cannot change the climate. It simply means that some other forcing, be it an increase in solar output, a change in the planet's albedo, etc., has overwhelmed the forcing signal from carbon dioxide.

• In 1991, for example, after the eruption of Mount Pinatubo, there was a sharp drop in global temperature following the massive outpouring of ash from the volcano. This sudden increase in air born particulate matter briefly overwhelmed many other forcing factors and drove the temperature down by several degrees until the ash settled out of the atmosphere. This is just one of many examples of a short term forcing managing to overwhelm a longer term forcing, such as an enhanced greenhouse effect.

admin

|

13:01, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


3. The 'Global warming' phenomenon could be caused by other things
# 1

Changes in land use and urbanization may contribute more to changes in the average ground temperature than “global warming” caused by human emissions. www.climatechangefraud.com

admin

|

13:03, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

There are probably other factors which are contributing to the warming effect, both natural and man-made. However, calculations also show that the rise in temperature can be easily explained by the increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. Until another compelling explanation is put forward, this would seem to tbe the most likely cause.

Also, just because something else could be causing global warming doesn't mean that it is.

admin

|

13:03, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


4. Co2 does not hold in heat!
# 1

The public is being misled through propaganda to assume CO2 is like a sheet of plastic holding in heat. CO2 can only absorb 8% of radiation frequencies available (No one disputes this.), and only about 1% of the heat leave the earth as radiation--the other 99% being conduction, convection and evaporation. NASA says its 41%, not 1%, but there is no agreement, and night vision equipment shows there is very little infrared radiation given off by normal temperature matter. www.nov55.com

admin

|

13:06, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

• All of the energy flowing from Earth to space is necessarily in the form of electromagnetic radiation. Earth is floating in a vacuum, making it physically impossible for it to lose energy through conduction or convection. So while much of the energy moving across the planet's surface is not in the form of radiation, it is the only form of energy important in determining the planet's temperature–the planet's temperature being determined by the ratio of the flux of outgoing terrestrial radiation to the flux of incoming solar radiation.

• Also, carbon dioxide is an effective absorber in the infrared spectrum. Due to its temperature, Earth radiates energy primarily in the infrared spectrum. So while carbon dioxide may fill a small absorptive window, it fills a very important one.

admin

|

13:06, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


5. Oceans regulate the amount of CO2 in the air through absorption equilibrium
# 1

Equilibrium is rapid and total as indicated by many sources of evidence. One, the graph for CO2 in the air is an extremely precise line. If nothing were regulating, it would vary wildly. Two, if equilibrium were not established, oceans would be absorbing or losing CO2 at a high rate, yet no detectable change occurs beyond the stab in the dark guess that it might have dropped 0.15 pH units over the past century. www.nov55.com

admin

|

13:09, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

Oceans do absorb atmospheric CO2. And under normal conditions the oceans and the biosphere will generally keep the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere constant. However, human activities are producing CO2 at a much higher rate than the planet's oceans and biosphere are able to absorb it. This imbalance is responsible for virtually the whole of the 20th century rise in CO2.

admin

|

13:09, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


6. Measurements are inaccurate
# 1

• Temperature readings from reporting stations outside the U.S. are poorly maintained and staffed and probably inaccurate; those in the U.S., which are probably more accurate, show little or no warming trend (See http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/ for more information)

• Temperature readings taken by terrestrial reporting stations are rising because they are increasingly surrounded by roads and buildings which hold heat, the “urban heat island” effect; methods used to control for this effect fail to reduce temperatures enough to offset it; See Anthony Watt’s “How not to measure temperature series” at http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-66/

•Sufficient data exist to measure changes in mass for only 79 of the 160,000 glaciers in the world

• Computer simulations are not real-world data and cannot be relied on to produce reliable forecasts. Data is usually inputted by persons looking for specific outcomes. See http://www.landshape.org/enm/ for more information.

admin

|

13:11, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

• Surface monitoring stations are not the only evidence that the planet is warming. satellite data, radiosondes, borehole analysis, glacial melt observations, sea ice melt, sea level rise, proxy reconstructions, and permafrost melt all conclusively show that the planet has undergone a pronounced and rapid warming over the past century and a half. So even if the entire surface temperature record were contaminated beyond use, there would still be no doubt whatsoever that the planet is warming.

• Aside from this, it has been demonstrated in several independent studies (Peterson, 2003) that the urban heat island effect does not significantly affect the surface temperature record. That is, the 20th century warming trend is not simply an artefact of urban development.

• It is also important to note that the warming trend is not an output of a computer model, but a conclusion based upon observing real-world evidence such as that listed above.

admin

|

13:11, 14 July 08

|

Karma Score: 34


1. No time to hold back
# 1

Among other factors which may be responsible for climate change, human action is generally regarded a strong contribution – and one which looks set to increase, particularly in light of the swift industrialization of certain large nations, such as China. There may not be time to wait.

admin

|

05:28, 04 August 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

The adverse economic effect of taxing carbon dioxide production in an effort to control "CO2-induced" global warming will be substantial. Poverty will be created and wealth will be destroyed. Nothing is worse for the environment than poverty. People in poverty don't care a whit for the environment, they just want to feed their children. Examples of this throughout the world, and in cities everywhere, are abundant. Environmental protection is considered an unaffordable luxury when people are poor. With the global economy on a knife-edge, it is no time to hold back-- we should all be fighting against those who are incapable of recognizing that the cause-effect order is not established for CO2 and temperature... Indeed, the DATA themselves more strongly support that CO2 rises occur as a result of temperature increases, and that our addition to CO2 in the atmosphere will have no effect at all that is predictable from the previous data..

admin

|

05:28, 04 August 08

|

Karma Score: 34


2. Many scientists think it does
# 1

Anthropogenic effects on climate change are accepted by more than 99% of climate scientists. The longest, high resolution datasets in the world are land and sea surface temperature, collected since the 1860s, the errors of which have now been statistically corrected (Folland and Parker, 1995). Since the advent of climate modeling since the early 1990s, technology has improved so rapidly that scientists are now able to isolate the different forcings of climate change, and have shown unequivocally that natural variability, sun spots and volcanic activity are not able to explain the rise in global temperature, and that anthropogenic emissions of CO2 (which have been monitored in Hawaii since 1957) is the only plausible explanation for the additional, catastrophic rise in temperature.

admin

|

10:45, 08 August 08

|

Karma Score: 34


# 2

An idea isn't validated by how many scientists accept it, but by the veracity of the evidence supporting it. It is perfectly possible for many scientists who accept or reject the theory to be wrong.

admin

|

10:45, 08 August 08

|

Karma Score: 34


3. Natural Variability Alone is Insufficient to Account for the Bulk of the Warming
# 1

• Using sound and well understood physical principals, scientists are able to construct accurate and reliable models of Earth's climate which they can then use to "hindcast" past climate changes. They have discovered that when only natural factors are included, the models do not accurately reflect the 20th century climate change. It is only when both natural and anthropogenic factors (such as CO2) are considered that the models present realistic results. • Scientists have also been unable to discover any natural forcing-such as changes in solar output-active during the past century sufficient to have produced the bulk of the 20th century warming trend.

admin

|

15:19, 08 August 08

|

Karma Score: 34


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